After a bible talk yesterday, a conversation with a friend,Sakae, went like this:
Me: May I ask you a 2-part question?
Sakae(S): Sure, go ahead.
Me: Have you considered if it's godly to go clubbing?
S: I think it depends on the real reasons why you go clubbing. If we're there to hang loose, why not? But if we're there to do sexy moves and get drunk, then as Christians, we may need to consider why we are going clubbing. That's why I would prefer a bar. I feel it's expensive though.
Me: That sounds good, have you also considered if we're being a good steward of our money when we're going to these places?
S: ........ Why don't you ask (a leader's name) about this?
Me: My style will probably lead him to think that I'm questioning his lifestyle choices. I feel that this is a grey area with no fixed rule so it's not something I really need 'guidance' in. Will probably ask people as and when it's opportune to do so to have an understanding of why they choose to go clubbing/not go clubbing. Would you like to ask him?
S: I think I would.
Me: Cool, let me know what he thinks.
Or on going out one-to-one with friends of the opposite gender:
(Another) friend: Haven't you read Joshua Harris?
Me: ([Unspoken] I had read his first 2 books 6 times... each, feel he writes great books which gave me a more godly perspective on BGRs but) He's not God ok?
[Apologies, I must end this incomplete post. Just realized that for posts I don't end in the same block of time I start are doomed to incompletion... I've lost my train of thought!]
5 comments:
interesting topic, all easier to discuss in person Carpe but here's my take in brief.
what i consider when making decisions/choices:
- what are my motives? are they pure? if not, what are the wrong attitudes/lies that im subconsciously subscribing to? pray abt those impure motives & avoid doing it in the meantime.
- does the activity stumble others?
- does the activity make me a bad steward of time/money?
- am i overdependent on the activity? making an idol of it?
what i consider wrt dating:
yes josh harris isnt God so we shdnt unknowingly make him into a BGR idol. still, my views on it have been greatly shaped by him & elisabeth elliot. think convictions on rships/courtship shd be formed over time based on godly input (Biblical principles, gd books, watching/talking/learning from godly couples, etc) & personal experience, tendencies. diff pple wld set diff boundaries based on their own weaknesses, etc
my main rule: are my actions loving to the brother (eg leading him on unnecessarily)? lvl of interaction wld vary from person to person, dependent on stage/maturity of rship.
Hmmm... Pearly, you did come up with a pretty good guideline for godly decision making.
1 consideration I'm starting to think about (in my more lucid moments) is 'Is my decision going to lead to others' good/ill?' (What can I say? I'm a slow learner :P )
With respects to dating, don't deny Josh Harris turned my mindset around in Christian relationships. Thank God for it. I feel that it is an invaluable book when we apply the mindset principles to the way we approach courtship.
I feel it may potentially be pharisaic when we apply the specific steps Josh applies to his own life successfully and take it as our own without consideration of our personal circumstances and potentially retard charitable (meaning Christian loving) actions.
What I took home from that book is the 3-step questions we ask ourselves when meeting that bright spark that makes the heart go 'thump, thump' by sight:
i) Reminder of my absolute, ultimate relationship with him ('her' for guys): My brother-in-christ, a child of God (very good for stopping me from idol-worshipping and for putting on my running shoes :) ), whom God has special plans for.
ii) My responsibility to others: The way I interract with him to be a testimony of God's holiness, not to react to him in a way that will likely incite uncomfortable feelings in other people
iii) Reminder that my ultimate responsibility is to God - that I can rest in Him to do what's good for me and on me just to do what's right.
agreed, we shdnt apply legalistically the principles that josh harris did wholesale into our own lives. neither shd we label others who happen to find it relevant & adopt those boundaries. guess its a case of trusting each to apply what they feel is good, wise.
on grey areas where the bible isnt explicit abt, the wiser way to encourage/sharpen each other wld be to share our own convictions/reasons for certain mthds/principles but not impose these on others :) unless of cos, there is mutual agreement to be accountable on specific pts...
im rambling. sry carpe :)
you two should just email each other =)...
Anyway, while Joshua Harris is undoubtedly not God let alone one of his prophets/apostles (in the traditional definition), the bible is silent about specific issues such as one-on-one dating, clubbing and even gambling.
Therefore, I think it is only natural that people quote authors who they feel discuss the topic in a sensible way that does not oppose any biblical principals. That is not to say they equate the books with those that are "God breathed" but that they feel the advise provided was sound and has the potential to edify others.
"Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
Pearly and Don: Agreed, that each has to apply these precepts in accordance with our personal circumstances that will:
i) Draw us closer to God and His will.
ii) Be an expression of our love (charity) for our neighbours (and part of it is not to cause others to stumble with our conduct).
I personally have to be constantly reminded about not imposing my viewpoints on others as well as to express my viewpoints in a way that does not stumble others so thanks people, for the reminder. :)
I also think that in reading any material, not to get too caught up in the initial realization that what the author is sharing is biblical, Christian and forget to decide if the strategies shared are edifying to ours' / people around us personal lives.
We all agree that this is a grey area and to do in accordance with what we know is right for us, right?
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